Перемены продолжаются. Чикаго и Триангл.

Добавлено: Пн Фев 24, 2003 1:48 pm

Ниже - оригинальный текст с форума.
Некоторые замечания - Джим Кондон был на собрании в Церкви Треугольника (Триангл), он и Эд Пауэрс не считаются отрезанными, как было обьявлено в Чикаго и Триангл.
Сэм Лэнг - в Церкви Триангл, и не как лидер Церкви - но под старейшинами, как обычный работающий для Церкви. Для тех кто не в курсе - он начинал движение вместе с Кипом.
Я не знаю стоит ли писать перевод, выскажитесь. Есть автопереводчики, есть www.translate.ru
На сайте Церви в Чикаго письмо Генри.
http://www.chicagochurch.org/

Добавлено: Пн Фев 24, 2003 1:53 pm

From: NONNYMOOS 23-Feb 20:22
To: ALL 1 of 17

3775.1

Hi folks.
I have over 8 pages of notes -- my hand is totally cramped -- from the special meeting of the Chicago Church.

I'm going to type them up and post them at www.icocnews.com and then post the links back to here for discussion.

But....in a nutshell....Henry Kriete was accepted as a prophet, like Nathan to David, and the leaders of the Chicago Church confessed, denounced the systemic abuses, and announced changes in accordance with their repentance.

And I mean completely, with much detail.

Take a look at the www.chicagochurch.org site. Right on the front page you see Henry's letter. It was made available to be handed out that night for all who wanted a copy.

They confessed to being initially angry and defensive about Henry's letter, and out of touch with the real state of harm and hurt in the church.

Much like my post earlier, they too have changed completely their opinion of the wisdom of Henry's open letter.

I have so much I want to say, not only about the meeting, but about my own continued need to repent.

Interestingly, when Steve Staten, our elder, talked about his own cowardice he mentioned that three brothers stood out in their efforts to confront him and stand up against what's been wrong in the church. I was mentioned as one of the three.

But I am humbled as I realize how as much as I tried, as much as I did -- I too have not been empathetic enough to the hurt and suffering of others. I too have been a coward, though I did speak up, I did not always speak up. I too have perpetrated the system for many years.

I think those on this forum in particular for helping me be aware of and sensitve to the many issues we've talked about these last four years. Yet I feel the failure to learn soon enough, to be compassionate quick enough, to hold back my temper or my sarcasm.

I ask for your forgiveness, and for you partnership going forward.

Nonny

From: NONNYMOOS 23-Feb 20:38
To: REEKO2 4 of 17

3775.4 in reply to 3775.3

They "unmarked" Ed powers. I would love to talk to you and work on getting your marking removed as well.
Could you email with a link to your story, if you've posted it somewhere on the net?

Your cry for justice has bothered me for some time. I've talked to the elder about your situation, and have already informed you that MK was probably repentant should you choose to talk to him.

Still, I should have called MK. If you'll send me your story, I'll make the effort to contact MK and have him initiate with you. And if he isn't willing, I'll take it to the elder.

Nonny

From: NONNYMOOS 23-Feb 21:41
To: NONNYMOOS 10 of 17

3775.10 in reply to 3775.1

Ok....the first post is up. The notest from Steve Staten, the elder's, talk.
http://www.leebase.com/icocnews/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=7&mode=&order=0&thold=0Highlights:

Henry's letter came out as God's providence
Isaiah Picket
Ed Powers UNmarked
ICC not the OTC
FP has errors
Caste system
Fall Away -- only God knows
Giving
Autonomy
Nonny

From: NONNYMOOS 23-Feb 22:52
To: NONNYMOOS 12 of 17

3775.12 in reply to 3775.1

Ok....the second post is up. The notest from Tony Singh's (lead evangelist) talk
http://www.leebase.com/icocnews/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=9&mode=&order=0&thold=0

Highlights:

Quotes from Spirit's letter to the churches in Revelations
Initially reacted to letter with anger, but now is angry at himself
Went to Vancouver and saw what God had brought via the prompting of the letter and knew he was wrong
Was embarrased about how cluess he had been to how much pain there was in the church
People hurt by a system he perpetuated
Had tried to change the church with out acknowleding the problems (wanted to sweep them under the rug)
No more 1 over 1 discipling or assigned partners
No more coercive giving, SMC is free will
Stats and accountability was abusive, controlling and manipulative
Staff was arrogant and hard to approach
No more pillar churches
All decisions for the Chicago Church will be made BY the Chicago Church --
Ungodly view of measuring people's spirituality
No more extra-biblical rules (vacations/moving/dating)
Nonny

Добавлено: Пн Фев 24, 2003 1:56 pm

From: SHAANXI99 23-Feb 08:39
To: ALL 1 of 23

3762.1

I just got back from a 2/23 service at Triangle that was extremely encouraging. Most of the Condon clan was present, as one of the daughters (don't know her name) was married yesterday. Jim Sr. and Sue were here, as well as two sons and two daughters, plus their spouses, etc. Jim Sr. led the opening prayer, along with a few remarks. He read Heb. 11:6 and 1 Cor 2 and commented that God rewards those who seek him with faith and our reward will be worth the struggle. He prayed for all to release feelings of ill will. Then there was an Irish song, complete with violin and recorder, led by Kevin Darby, with band and chorus. Before communion, the two Condon sisters and Tina Darby Condon sang a beautiful acapella trio.
Those of you who know ICC history know that Jim Sr. and Sue Condon were marked for disagreeing with Kip years ago (1989?). For me, this was an occasion of reconciliation. I'm sure the Condons will comment, but this is probably the most unified corporate worship the family has had since the marking.

The sermon was about Worship. I just realized today, that Triangle church's theme, as declared on 1/5/03, is "O Worship the King". We have been encouraged to read Henry Kriete's book with that title. We have been going that direction, so his letter was well received.

A couple of notes from the sermon by Mitch Mitchell: (1) You don't see many Quiet Times in the book of Acts, but you do see lots of corporate worship. (2) Appointing elders will solve many of our problems. He (Mitch)is all for elders and will work under them if he is still employed here.

This afternoon is our Financial Presentation. I believe that leaders are being open in good faith, but there is a lot of pent-up emotion about things. People are being allowed to speak. Let's see if this is another Jerry Springer meeting. I would actually like to delay the Financial Presentation, so I can relish the service this morning. But, life rarely gives us those opportunities . . .

Hey, I wonder if Jerry Springer would do a real show with Gordon, Al, etc. Maybe that's the way to get the word out about changes. (yeah, right)

Shaanxi

From: JCONDON5 23-Feb 19:34
To: SHAANXI99 unread 9 of 23

3762.9 in reply to 3762.1

What an emotional roller coaster today! I am so on overload at the moment. It was so encouraging this morning and what an incredible response from people afterwards. There were many people who have "been around" who were quite aware of the significance of my father getting up to speak at an "ICC" service. It's one thing to say we are not the "one true church", it's another thing to have a service such as the one we had today - people were so encouraged. I didn't hear one negative response from anyone.
Mitch even made mention of the idea of my father preaching when he came back to visit one of these days. He also encouraged my father to get with Steve Johnson as soon as he could to help SJ(my father is planning to call him this week).

My parents went from our service this morning to a service of the Brooks Ave. church of Christ and then had lunch with their preacher. The preacher was very encouraged to hear what had gone and expressed a desire to get with Sam and Mitch. I spoke with Sam and Mitch later and they too are eager to get with this minister. Things are really changing - and not just in word.

We had a financial presentation starting at 2:00 which was pretty overwhelming. The presentation lasted about two hours but the "open forum" lasted at least another 4-5 hours. The administrative staff outlined where all the SMC and HOPE monies have been going for the last few years. There was great anger expressed by staff and members alike in the fact that so much of this money has been going towards "administration" without anyone (including staff) knowing about it. All congregations have been paying the salaries of Kip, Al and other "administrators" and a large percentage of HOPE money has not been getting to the HOPE projects we all thought it was. This has now ended. We are no longer paying these "administrative dues" although there will be a SMC collection taken up, with every penny accounted for (finally) which will go to Africa, The Caribbean and to the Middle East.

There were a number of very articulate, passionate women who expressed anger regarding staff women getting paid (many did not know they also receives salaries) while married women were rebuked for working and not staying home with their children. The women's roles are being examined and I expect major changes. Staff did not disagree that this is an area where major change is needed.

I must admit, there is obviously a feeling of chaos as people speak out and the leaders maintain a position of humility and refuse to return to leading with power and coersion. There is nothing pretty about this whole process. But it needs to happen. People are feeling insecure and some I think would prefer that Sam be a "strong and powerful leader" to guide us through this process. Sam refuses to lead this way and it would clearly be a mistake to do so.

We will in all likelihood be laying off a large percentage of our staff. Since their roles are changing from leaders who do everything to leaders who serve - much of the leaders' responsibilities in the past will be taken on by non-paid staff. There also will not be enough money in the budget to support these staff. Contribution is down, people do not trust and the money will not be there.

We badly need elders. We currently have a "transition group" making decisions but not all perspectives are being represented and not all trust this "transition group". One single mother got up and expressed frustration that there were no women in this "transition group" and "how could a married man understand my needs?".

Please pray for us. I believe there are great things going on in Triangle - other churches are looking on in great curiousity and amazement. I believe we are an example to other churches. My brother in law who is on staff in Boston postponed his return to Boston in order to attend the financial presentation. He was amazed and I know he will bring back many convictions to the Boston church. These are exciting times, but there is nothing pretty or glorious about these times. Please pray for us!

Добавлено: Чт Мар 06, 2003 11:02 am

А что известно о позиции Сэма Лейнга?